Another Running Like Zebras

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2005-01-30

ZLATAN: 19 Questions for the believers of code 19.

EDIP: 19 Answers for the disbelievers of code 19!

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that there is code 19 embedded in it?

EDIP: 74:30-35 verses in Chapter named The Hidden One IMPLIES and the Quran, with its 114 (6×19) chapters, with its 19 lettered Basmalah and many other units, confirms the implication and fulfills the prophecy of 74:30-35.

According to 74:31, when the secret is unveiled, hypocrites and disbelievers will not understand the implication of 19. According to these prophetic verses, this number will disturb them. Number 19, indeed is an intellectual punishment for hypocrites and disbelievers.

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that 19 is a Sign?

EDIP: 74:31-35 and 7:146 and 46:10.

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that J day will happen in the year 2280.?

EDIP: Nowhere in the Quran you will find an explicit statement regarding this date! It is a personal speculation based on some hints and indication of certain verses. I had come to the same conclusion independent of Rashad, albeit years after his original “discovery.” Nevertheless, I admit that this information is not explicit in the Quran and it requires some kind of deeper study to understand it.

ZLATAN: Where, in Quran, God ordered that words of Quran and its letters should be counted?

EDIP: Nowhere you will find such an order as nowhere you will find a prohibition for such a task. The Quran tells us to study the Quran and informs us that it is revealed by God’s knowledge. The Quran is also described as an AYAT, sign or miracle. One of God’s attributes is HASEB and SAREE’UL HESAB. He also has “counted everything in numbers” (72:28).

Discovering or appreciating mathematical patterns in the Quran is a matter of intellectual curiosity and accepting it is a matter of sincerity you 9, 14, 14, 21, 13, 5, 18, 1, 20, 5; 4, 9, 19, 2, 5, 12, 9, 5, 22, 6, 18. Over it is twenty-six!  (If you understand this, you will also catch an error!)

ZLATAN: Where, in Quran, God said that anything and everything in Quran should be counted and divided by 19?

EDIP: Where, in the Quran, God said that anything and everything in the Quran should be considered as just literature? Where, in the Quran, God said that God communicates with us only in letters?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “you have rejected My revelations/signs/miracles (ayaat), before acquiring knowledge about them. Is this not what you did?”?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “Praise be to God; He will show you His signs, until you recognize them. Your Lord is never unaware of anything you do?”?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “He is fully aware of what they have. He has counted the numbers of all things”?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “Do you know what ‘Elleyyeen is? A numerically structured book (kitabun marqum). To be witnessed by those close to Me”?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “This is one of the greatest. A warning to the human race. For those among you who wish to advance, or regress”?

Where, in the Quran, God said that “I will divert from my miracles/revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification. When they see every kind of miracle they will not believe”?

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that Rashad Khalifa is a messenger of God?

EDIP: What? Wasn’t Rashad assassinated by Sunni terrorists? Was Rashad reincarnated somewhere? How can a dead person be a messenger?

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that, after revelation of Quran, God will send a Rashad Khalifa to make clear and explain some of His verses?

EDIP: Nowhere. But, the Quran advices believers to learn from each other. The verses and words of the Quran explain themselves. A student of the Quran might invest his time and intellectual energy in studying some Quranic issues and might be in better position to inform others about the meaning of a particular word or verse.

ZLATAN: Where Quran says that we will find some divinely  inspired explanations of its verses in the book called appendices of Rashad Khalifa`s (Authorised!?) translation of Quran?

EDIP: Nowhere. The Quran is detailed, complete and is the only source of God’s religion.

ZLATAN: Can you answer to any of these questions above with a clear, straightforward and unambiguous verse of Quran?

EDIP: Perhaps you should have put this request in the end. I tried; but I would like to remind you that the Quran contains some multiple meaning verses to expose hypocrites and disturb disbelievers. Over it is Nineteen!

ZLATAN: Isn’t Quran fully detailed book?

EDIP: Yes, therefore A.L.M.; A.L.M.S.; K.H.Y.’A.SS.; Y.S.; H.M.; ‘A.S.Q.; Q., etc. Yes, therefore 2:23

ZLATAN: Why is it so hard to find a SINGLE clear verse in Quran to support theory of code 19?

EDIP: After 1974, the single clear verse is “over it 19″ in Chapter 74. However, the entire Quran is full of explanation and implementation of this prophecy.

“Over it is 19. We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews, (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, ‘What did God mean by this allegory?’ God thus sends astray whomever He wills (or, whoever wills), and guides whomever He wills (or, whoever wills). None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. It is a reminder for the people.” (74:30-31)

Traditional commentators of the Quran had justifiably grappled with the understanding this verse. They thought that disbelievers would be punished by 19 guardians of hell. That was fine. But they could not explain how the number of guardians of hell would increase the faith of believers and convince the skeptical Christians and Jews regarding the divine nature of the Quran. Finding no answer to this question, they tried some explanations: the Christians and Jews would believe in the Quran since they will see that the number of guardians of hell is also nineteen in their scripture. Witnessing the conversion of Christians and Jews, the faith of Muslims would increase.

This orthodox commentary has three major problems. First, neither the Old, nor the New Testament mentions number nineteen as the guardians of hell. Second, even if there were such a similar statement, this would not remove their doubts but to the contrary, increase their doubts since they would consider it one of the many evidences supporting their claim that the Quran had plagiarized many stories from the Bible. Indeed, there are many Biblical events are told by the Quran, though occasionally with some differences. Third, none so far converted to Islam because of guardians of hell.

Scholars who noticed this flaw in traditional commentaries, such as Fahraddin el-Razi, in his classic commentary offered many speculations, including that the number nineteen indicates the nineteen intellectual faculty of human being. Tough it is a clever interpretation, but it fails to explain the emphasis on the number nineteen itself and it also fails to substantiate the speculation.

The following verses emphasize the crucial function of number nineteen:

“Absolutely, by the moon.

And the night as it passes.

And the morning as it shines.

This is one of the greatest (miracles).

A warning to people.

For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.” (74:32-37).

ZLATAN: Why do you have to rely upon ambiguous verses while defending code 19 and messengership of Rashad Khalifa?(3/7)

EDIP: The “ambiguous” or multiple meaning verses can be understood by “those who are deep in knowledge” (3:7). Hypocrites will not understand their meaning (3:7; 74:31).  (See my article titled: Glorifying Unlimited Ignorance via Distorting the Meaning of “Mutashabih” of 3:7.)

ZLATAN: Have you checked all the counts and calculations, that you consider miraculous and  that you believe in, by yourself,  or you rely upon hear-say?

EDIP: Yes, I did check every count that I deem to be the part of the miracle. I have started this since 1980 when I was in Turkish prison as a political prisoner.

ZLATAN: Did you count 40.000 letters (“initials” in initialed chapters), and how many times?

EDIP: I counted and recounted the frequency of initials except the letters A.L.M. I have verified and examined my count by comparing it to the count of others.

ZLATAN: Have you ever heard about messenger of God who announced his messengership RETROACTIVELY to people as Rashad Khalifa did?

EDIP: I fail to understand the importance of this issue. If you were contemporary of Muhammad then your question would be: “Have you ever heard about messenger of God who claimed to have BOOK as MIRACLE as Muhammad did?” As if there is a universal law requiring the messengers to be the clones of each other!

ZLATAN: Did you know that appendices of RK`s translation of Quran are full of manipulations with counting criteria, errors and mathematical properties that is, insignificant calculations and counts?

EDIP: Yes, I do know. I also do know that among those arbitrary calculations there are very significant and incredible mathematical diamonds. Neither I swallow every calculation as part of the mathematical code because Rashad suggested it, nor I reject the diamonds.

ZLATAN: Did you ever read a serious critic and reevaluation of Rashad Khalifa`s work (calculations, counts etc.)?

EDIP: Yes, I did read more than a dozen books and hundreds of articles that are published in English, Turkish, Arabic and Persian and I have answered most of their criticism in my Turkish book, “Over it 19,” which I am now writing its English version. Besides, I have a lengthy argument with Daniel Lomax who came up with a much better opposition and skeptical evasion than anyone has done so far. (See: Running Like Zebras). If you want to increase your knowledge to sophisticate your unappreciative attitude against the mathematical miracle of the Quran, here is the list of some of those books:

TURKISH:
1. Kuran-i  Kerim ve  Ondokuz Efsanesi, Mahmut Toptas- Hikmet Zeyveli-Dr. Orhan Kuntman-Sadrettin Yuksel,  Inkilab Yayinevi,1988, Istanbul.
2. Yuce Kitabimiz Kuran, Dr. Tayyar Altikulac, Turkiye Diyanet Vakfi, 1988, Ankara.
3. Kuran’in Anlasilmasina Dogru, Doc. Dr. Salih Akdemir, Mim Yayinlar , 1983, Ankara.
4. 19 Muslumanlarina 19 Cevap: Insanlar da Kayar, Emine Ozkan Senlikoglu, 1992,  Istanbul.

ENGLISH:
5. The Qur’an’s Numerical Miracle: Hoax and Heresy, Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, Al Furqan Publications, 1987, Riyad.
6. On Dr. Khalifa’s Theory of the Nineteen in the Quran, Dennis G. Lomax, Marjan Publications, 1994, San Quentin, California.
7. Al- ttihad: A Quarterly Journal of  slamic Studies, Anis Ahmad (The Miracle Called Quran At the Mercy of Charlatans), Muslim Student Association of United States and Canada, April 1978, Brentwood, Maryland.

ARABIC:
8. Tisata Ashara Meleken (Ondokuz Melek), Husayn Naci, Muhammed Muhyeddin, Az-Zahra Lil’Alemil ‘Arabi, 1895, Kahire.

ZLATAN: Why do you not believe in Bible code(s)?

EDIP: Well, I read the Bible Code and some articles defending it and some articles critical of it. By applying his method equa-distance of finding words in a text to any volumous book one can generate some meaningful words and even some related ones. An excellent article, “Hidden Messages and The Bible Code” written by David E. Thomas, published in Skeptical Inquirer, Volume 21, No. 6, November/December 1997, clearly demonstrated that the claims are not warranted. Below is one of my correspondences with the author of the article.

Dear Mr. Thomas:

As a reader of Skeptical Inquirer and Skeptic magazines, I followed your articles on the so-called Bible-Code, and I enjoyed them. Though my mind is much closer to skeptics and agnostics rather than to the majority of “believers” of religions, I am a monotheist and have more than enough knowledge and reasons to believe that the Quran is the word of God.

I am currently writing a book on the Code 19 of the Quran and I would like your permission to include your article(s) on the Bible Code in the appendices section. Sure, you should have all the reasons to suspect of the abuse of your article for “another code” or numerological manipulation. However, I will offer you this:

If you are interested, you may write an article evaluating the Code 19 and I will put it in the appendices section together with your article on the Bible Code.

I had in the past a two-round arguments on this topic with Carl Sagan. I compiled our arguments in a booklet under “The Prime Argument.” As for Martin Gardner, though he is one of my favorite authors, his treatment of the Code 19 in Scientific Americana, September 1980 was amusing or interesting at best, and his recent articles in the Skeptic were written with a superficial sarcasm.

If you want to learn about my work and me, I invite you to visit my website: http://www.yuksel.org

At 9:45 PM -0000 8/16/99, Dave Thomas wrote:

Dear Edip Yuksel,

Thank you for the e-mail note.  I also received a phone call, where you left your phone number in Arizona.

I’m interested in your proposal, but I need to find out some more details.

For one, I probably will have to get permission from CSICOP for re-printing the Skeptical Inquirer articles.  Who is the book’s publisher?  When is it planned for release?

Regarding writing an analysis of “Code 19″, how long would I have to research such an article?  (It took me about 4 months to delve into the Bible Code to my satisfaction; much less than the 5 years that Drosnin studied it, but still, some time.)

I have browsed your website, and will peruse the section on the 19 Code.

Regards,
Dave Thomas

ZLATAN: Why do you not believe in hadiths of Muhammad of which many are scientifically confirmed as true?

EDIP: Which one? When I was a proponent of hadith I dug all the six authentic books and many other secondary hadith sources to find scientifically interesting hadiths, what I found was hundreds of nonsense, false and ridiculous information and a few interesting hadith. The most scientific one was about dipping the fly completely into your soup if it has fallen into it by accident. The other one was about his advice to drink urine for cure. If you know better ones please let us know. We do not want to be deprived of scientific information!

ZLATAN: Why do you think that the sunnah and hadith which Rashad Khalifa ascribed to God, is any better from the sunnah and hadith which Bukhari & co.`s ascribed to God?

EDIP: Anyone who thinks that way cannot be the follower of the Quran alone and ironically is in contradiction with the basic teaching of Rashad Khalifa.